Orlando Magic Blog

Group Blog talking about the NBA 2009 Eastern Conference Champions. Due to the amazing success of the 2009 playoff run comments are now frequently deleted to kill offensive comments, incoherence, or asininity. Comments can no longer be anonymous and require either a Blogger or OpenID account.

Thursday, February 05, 2009

A closer look at Lue's season numbers

So what kind of numbers has Tyronn Lue, the Magic's new backup PG, put up this season with Milwaukee?

MIN... 13.1
PPG... 4.7
FG%... 45.4%
3 PT FG%... 46.7%
FT%... 75.0
AST/TO... 1.5/0.7

Lue has a high game this season of 14 points (coincidentally, against the Magic on Nov. 24th), and also has games of 13 and 10 points. His high mark for assists in a game this season is 5.

Compare those numbers to current Magic PG Anthony Johnson. Even with Johnson's great effort against the Clippers, he is averaging 4.8 PPG on 39.4% shooting and 43.1% 3 point shooting along with a 2.6/0.9 assist/turnover ratio in 18.5 minutes a game. Comparing the two, Lue is the better shooter, and has the better per-minute numbers, though Johnson is more adept at passing the ball.

Obviously, Lue's numbers are nothing to get excited about, but they aren't exactly terrible, either.

The Magic and GM Otis Smith got what they felt they needed... a serviceable backup PG who can shoot the three effectively. Lue also has an expiring contract, like Keith Bogans did, so the Magic don't lose any of their flexibility there.

Sure, KBo was a hard worker and a good defender, but he completely lost his shooting touch and fell completely out of the Magic's rotation. At least the Magic have someone who can help them more who will play every night.

Best wishes to Bogans, as he will receive much more playing time in Milwaukee with Redd being out for the year.

I'm in complete disagreement with the "gloom and doom" people who think this trade will hurt the Magic.


  • At 12:09 AM, Blogger Matt said…

    Mike, with all due respect, did you forget all the options that were mentioned? We have a commanding lead in SW division, and did not have to make something happen in a hurry. Stupid is what stupid does!!!

  • At 5:07 AM, Blogger Mike from Illinois said…

    Matt, obviously you were referring to the SE division (not SW).

    I will acknowledge the fact that maybe Otis Smith could have made a deal for a more prominent PG by packaging Brian Cook (who also has an expiring contract) with Keith Bogans, and maybe even Adonal Foyle (another expiring contract), as was mentioned by a commenter at Third Quarter Collapse.

    Who knows, maybe Otis did look into every possibility and he felt this was the best thing for the Magic, both team wise and salary wise.

    This isn't the 2003-04 season, and this Magic team is far different than the one Lue was on, so can we at least give Lue a chance before we condemn Otis for making the trade.

  • At 6:53 AM, Blogger Matt said…

    Do we have a return or refund option on this deal to give it a chance? This is a done deal, and we have to evaluate it on its face value.

  • At 9:29 AM, Blogger WeRDevos said…

    I don't care a bit about what a guys stats look like that is on a losing team. The only time he has been on a winner was the Lakers, where he barely played. When he plays, his teams lose. He's also missed over 30 games a season due to injury the past 3 years.

    I do not get this at all. He is slow. He is short. He can't play defense. And he has never shown the smarts to get the ball to the shooters at the right place.

    He is a career loser that we got to witness first hand for the miserable 03-04 season.

    This is as dumb as rehiring Bryan Hill. If Lue is all that was available the better move was to keep Bogans.

  • At 12:28 PM, Blogger Big Figure said…

    You guys are unbeleivable! Keep keith bogans,why??? He is just as unathletic as lue and basically just a defender who shoots the three (and wasnt doing that well might i add). He has been passed on the depth chart by a rookie and JJ plus MP is the starter. To keep a fourth SG who isnt even in the rotation right now would be absolutely stupid! Lue will come in as a back-up and flourish this time around because he does exactly what compliments dwight and thats shoot the three,he doesnt have to worry about any playmaking duties,we have hedo for that. Good team or bad team the numbers say that he's always been a good spot-up shooter and thats important to our style of play. Seems like everybody is quick to bash otis but let's remember that the magic have lost TWO quality PG's for the season. Both will be back,so this is the best deal we could have made because lue will be off the books at the end of the season. We got a guy who fits the mold of our offense who DOESNT HAVE TO HANDLE THE BALL MUCH,hedo will run the offense with the second team on the floor. All lue has to do is hit his open shots and he'll prove to be exactly what we need coming off the bench,he's experienced and hit plenty of big three's in the play-offs for the lakers. Lue will fit the role perfectly because SVG isnt gonna just give him a job which you guys need to understand,he'll have to earn his position and play,as long as CL keeps playing well at PG lue may never see any meaningful minutes anyway so you guys just need to chill. We swapped a PG for a SG and the PG can help us. BIG WHOOPTY DO!

  • At 12:38 PM, Blogger Big Figure said…

    On another note,i was super excited to see what a back-court of JJ and CL would look like with CL playing the point. Now that SVG has inserted MP back in the starting line-up,CL and JJ can run together with the second team. That is a potent back-court that shoots the ball very well,at the same time has very good size both being 6ft4.

  • At 3:16 PM, Blogger Mike from Illinois said…

    Excerpts from an entry yesterday from Brian Schmitz's BasketBlog on orlandosentinel.com:

    Pretty Decent Deal: Keith Bogans For Tyronn Lue

    The pickings are slim out there, especially when you need a point guard.

    The Magic probably couldn't have done much better at this point: The Magic's Keith Bogans for the Bucks' Ty Lue.

    The deal helped both teams who lost starters because of injuries.

    The Magic needed an experienced point afer losing Jameer Nelson and Lue, 31, is that. They had a surplus of shooting guards.

    Milwaukee lost shooting guard Michael Redd and needed one.

    Bogans isn't Redd, and Lue isn't Nelson, but this is what you get trading back-ups.

    Could the Magic have done better?

    Jamaal Tinsley, the estranged Pacers point, was the best available. But he hasn't played in more than a year, is injury prone and worse --- his contract was too much (two years,$14 million left).

    The Magic are bumping the luxury tax, and still have to try to re-sign Hedo Turkoglu.

    Stephon Marbury? Still a Knick, still a headcase. Same with Steve Francis.

    Lue, barely 6 feet, is making a return visit to Orlando, having played here in 2003-04 and averaged 10.5 point and 4.2 assists.

    His playing time down, his numbers are about half that with the Bucks. He's a good complement to Anthony Johnson, currently the starter.

    He's still quicker, and can hit the 3 shooting .467 (21-of-45) from three-point range this season with the Bucks.

  • At 3:24 PM, Blogger Mike from Illinois said…

    Big Figure, I agree completely with your posts.

    I'll never understand the hate that some people have for Lue.

    To blame him for the 20-62 2003-04 season is just plain silly and doesn't make any sense.

  • At 3:54 PM, Blogger Mike from Illinois said…

    Lue won't be available for tonight's game at Indiana.

    Danny Granger may not play for the Pacers, as he has a nagging knee injury that has caused him difficulty the last several games.

    We'll probably see a lot of the CLee/Redick backcourt tonight that Big Figure was talking about.

  • At 4:04 PM, Anonymous Howard rocks said…

    Guys, ya seen this?

    Watch Dwight Howard slam dunk in 3D HD live, they got family size tickets giveaway.


  • At 5:06 PM, Blogger Big Figure said…

    DH in 3D,pretty cool! Yea mike i read what brian had to say and he's always very logical,i'll take his opinion over most. When lue was here before he played on a team that was built on dreams,tracy+grant+tim duncan= championship. But we know what really happened,tracy wound up playing here all by himself. Grant stayed injured and timmy didnt come,anybody would have struggled on that team!!!!!!!! And the truth is,everybody except T-mac did struggle,to the tune of 20 wins.

  • At 11:44 AM, Blogger Matt said…

    Come on guys. Sentinel has always been on Magic's pay roll. Since when Brian Schmitz is the poll setter? There are four reasons why I don't agree with this stupid deal:

    1 - There was no rush for us to make the first deal that comes our way. Keith was playing excellent defense when he was on, and he could play both SG and SF. What if Hedo gets injured? We don't have any insurance policy in that position. He must have been injured or something recently. It is amazing that we have such a short memory on people.

    2 - For the gazillion time let me say that I don't believe in salary cap especially when a team is shooting for championship. Even from a business standpoint, the luxury tax could be easily offset with the extra revenue generated by the winning team. So please don't you ever mention that to me.

    3 - Lue is slow and undersized, and cannot get a shot off against good defensive teams (BOS and DET), and that is our competition. Who cares whether or not he can make some 3s against bottom feeders. We should be able to beat those teams even with Courtney at point.

    4 - We made the deal with some cash consideration for MIL. What the hell is that? How much is it that we are paying? Why aren't they transparent? Remember that the taxpayers are building the new arena for them.

  • At 5:29 PM, Blogger Mike from Illinois said…

    Let me try to address Matt's four points from his last post:

    1) If Turk were to get hurt and miss some games, the Magic still have options. They could have Pietrus start at SF and CLee at SG. They could also move Lewis to SF and have Tony Battie at PF.

    2) It's not only the luxury tax here that's an issue, but the Magic are trying to retain their flexibility so they have enough money to re-sign Turk if he opts out of his contract after the season.

    3) I'll reserve judgement on whether Lue is too slow and would have a tough time getting shots off against teams like Boston, Cleveland, and Detroit until he actually plays against those teams and we can see how he does.

    4) The Magic had to include cash to the Bucks because Bogans ($2.9 million) is making more than Lue ($2.2 million). I never read what the exact amount of the cash was, but I assume it was around $700,000 to make up the difference in salary.

  • At 5:00 AM, Blogger Matt said…

    Mike: More and more you sound like the spokesman for the Magic. My points are not answered since:

    1 - There was no rush to make something happen, and we are still thin in SF position, and if movements are made it would affect the depth of the bench.

    2 - I don't buy flexibility when it comes to signing team's own free agent because it becomes relevant to salary cap, once again.

    3 - Reserve judgement? Haven't you ever seen Lue play? Come on. You are better than that.

    4 - I know why we are paying to MIL. But that is another part of what is wrong with this deal. We make a bad trade and yet end up paying cash too.

    Folks, this blog is known for its independence, and being above the fray. If Sentinel becomes our source of information and judgement, we lose the edge that we have deservedly gained through years of conveying truth and nothing but truth. We pushed to the edge when it was not popular or likely, like Brian Hill's case, and many controversial situations when our contributors agreed to disagree. That is how we got rated above many blogs on Orlando Magic. We should not, and would not settle for less than perfect. Orlando Magic's ownership needs to provide the best to the city of Orlando because the city is providing them with a state of the art arena. Let's start sending Otis Smith's behind where it belongs. For the amount of money on the Magic's pay roll, they need a GM who is an independent and critical thinker, not one who is a sheepish clown responding to the ownerships wishes as his commands.

  • At 3:09 PM, Blogger Mike from Illinois said…

    Matt. as you probably know, I am very optimistic by nature, especially being a die-hard fan of the Magic. I always try to look on the bright side of things, and how some things that people perceive as being a big negative (like the Lue/Bogans trade), I look and see how that could wind up being a positive, instead of being "gloom and doom".

    That's my nature, being positive about things.

    As for Lue being too slow to get off shots, that doesn't mean the Magic can't run screens for him and get him open for shots. We all know how good Coach Van Gundy is at game strategy, on both the offensive and defensive ends.

    This blog has a good mix of varying viewpoints and opinions, so hopefully that continues.

  • At 11:13 PM, Blogger Matt said…

    Well said, Mike and it is always nice to have positive people around. However, most of us at some point of time had to act as an "agent of change". Change does not come about if you are positive, thus happy with how things are. One needs to be critical, even pushing to the edge from time to time, to force change.

  • At 11:17 PM, Blogger Mike from Illinois said…

    I'm not going to be overly critical of the GM of a team that has the fourth best record in the NBA.

    Of course, he's made mistakes (which have been well-documented on here over the last three years), but he has put together an outstanding young team that should only get better.

    Also, I'm not saying that the Sentinel should be our sole source of information and judgement; but I like to present Magic beat writer Brian Schmitz's opinion on some matters, like the Lue/Bogans trade.

    I also often like to refer our blog readers to Third Quarter Collapse (of which I am a member of, too) on many matters, as they have very knowledgeable writers and commenters about the Magic.

    Obviously, not everyone is going to agree on everything (we've all had our share of disagreements on this blog), so it's only fair that everyone be allowed to give their viewpoint on something, as long as they can back up what they're saying.


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