Orlando Magic Blog

Group Blog talking about the NBA 2009 Eastern Conference Champions. Due to the amazing success of the 2009 playoff run comments are now frequently deleted to kill offensive comments, incoherence, or asininity. Comments can no longer be anonymous and require either a Blogger or OpenID account.

Thursday, July 10, 2008

Sources: Keyon Dooling not returning to Magic; Redick thinks he will be traded

Excerpts from an article in the online Sentinel by Brian Schmitz that appeared late Wednesday evening:

Dooling - according to NBA sources and his camp - will not be returning to play for the Magic, barring an 11th-hour change.

He was disappointed, but did not want to comment on the record when reached by the Sentinel in the Bahamas, where he is vacationing with erstwhile teammates Jameer Nelson and Tony Battie.

It appears the Magic could not financially accommodate Dooling - who made $3.5 million last season - after signing Pietrus.

The Magic's payroll is about $65 million and they apparently are butting up against a budget. They will look to sign a point guard through free agency for the minimum, acquire one in a trade or create more cap room with a deal. Nelson is the lone point guard on the roster.

J.J. Redick concedes his future is dim in Orlando.

"The writing's on the wall" Redick told the Sentinel. "The writing's been on the wall for some time."

The only way the situation can somewhat change is if the Magic deal Bogans.

"I spoke with Otis (Smith) last week and I'm sure we'll speak again," Redick said. "I don't really know. Obviously, Otis has the control. I just want to play. I would like to play in Orlando."

The Magic are also looking to sign another big at the veteran's minimum, and the club could bring back center Adonal Foyle.

One player also said Wednesday that it was his understanding that Foyle - who opted out of his veteran's minimum deal after last season - will return.


  • At 3:20 AM, Blogger Mike from Illinois said…

    Not good news; the Magic will miss Dooling and the energy and defense he brought off the bench.

    With both Arroyo and Dooling now gone, looks like Jason Williams will be signed as the backup to Nelson.

    WeRDevos, I read your observations and opinions on the previous post. Some of them I agree with, but I can't believe you think so little (no pun intended) of Jameer Nelson that you think Williams should start ahead of him. Heck, I would be happy if Williams can merely be a serviceable backup next season.

    After Nelson's much-improved play in the playoffs, leading the way in several of the Magic playoff wins, I really believe he will prove to all his critics how good he can be over the course of a season. Yes, he's only 5'10" and will never be a great defensive player, but you can't measure the size of a man's heart and that's one thing that Jameer has a lot of. I am not worried about the starting PG of the Magic.

    The backup PG... that's another story.

    Kind of interesting that Foyle might be coming back. I would think he wouldn't want to after Gortat saw most of the action as the backup to Dwight in the playoffs, and I think Gortat showed enough that he should be the backup to Dwight this coming season.

  • At 4:08 AM, Blogger Matt said…

    The bonehead appoach of Magic's ownership with the GM sheepishly following is discouraging once again:

    1 - We cannot be a top contender if the ownership is so hung up on the salary cap issue. Keyon's re-signing was not going to break the bank.
    2 - The PG back-up issue should have been resolved before an upgrade to the SG was addressed, as I have indicated in an earlier post. Pietrus is not that big of an upgrade anyways since he was not even a starter in GS.
    3 - The lack of depth in the frontline will once again hurt Magic's advancement especially now that TOR and PHI will look a lot stronger. Magic may not even get a pass into the second round of the ply-offs.
    4 - Short-sighted business people like Bob tend to forget that the customers are the kings, and if are not given the right product, will take their business elsewhere.

  • At 4:54 PM, Blogger WeRDevos said…

    I think the line should have read:

    J.J. Redick concedes his future is dim in the NBA.

    We can't begin to ridicule what an awful pick Redick has been. While not as poor as taking Bargnani first or Adam Morrison third practically every pick taken after Redick in the first round has been more productive and played more minutes.

    What really hurts is how useful Hilton Armstrong would have been to the Magic.

  • At 5:29 PM, Blogger WeRDevos said…

    I have a few problems with our little pg Jameer.

    1. He is completely owned by Chauncey Billups (and Stuckey) and whatever other big PGs are left in the East. With Detroit this is to a bigger degree than how much better Howard is than Detroit's front line. It has me thinking he's truly too limited to be part of the playoffs solution.

    2. He is not consistent enough. A fourth year team leader / starting PG shouldn't lose 20 starts to Carlos Arroyo. He seems to run hot and cold unlike a star PG. This is probably because he can't play defense.

    Of course Williams doesn't play defense either. But he has the experience of winning a championship (beating Detroit in the process) while playing pick and roll and pick n pop with a giant in the middle. The question is his knees (and if he signs with the Magic)

    So he can't play defense, and he's more shoot first than true assist machine. If Turk and Lewis don't step up with combined 9 assists a game in the playoffs this team never sees the second round.

    I see his career heading for good change of pace backup point guard.

  • At 7:32 PM, Blogger OVERWADED said…

    Did we watch the same playoffs; because Nelson did not disappoint me?

    Nelson more than held his own the entire playoffs. In round one he outplayed Ford and Calderon. Then in the Conf. Semi-Finals against Billups and Stuckey, he definitively carried his weight. He scored as much as Billups. He averaged more rebounds than both of them combined, averaged more assists than either of them, and all while only turning the ball over 1.60 times per game. His shot % was the best of the three (FG% .492, 3p% .474). We couldn’t have asked for much more out of a point guard.

    Now do the same thing at the shooting guard position, and the contrast is DRASTIC. That was easily our most inconsistent position on the floor. It was also the position that we struggled to defend the most all season. As for the series against the Pistons, RIP hurt us more than anybody else by far.

    Only my opinion, but bringing in a solid player at that position should have been our top priority. And I know Pietrus wasn’t a starter for GS (he only started 17 games last season). But Nelson with his “small ball system” played him as a power forward. Pietrus at 6-6 is a 2 or 3 the most. I think he will excel in Orlando as our shooting guard under Stan Van Gundy.

    Otis brought in a player whose player profile reads: Great athlete… Outstanding leaping skills… Very aggressive… Very good defender… Excels in the open court… And he’s developed a 3-point shot. Sounds like the perfect pickup to me. He’s an Ariza that can shoot. Or if I had to read Otis Smith’s mind, he wants him to be our version of Bruce Bowen.

    I can’t argue the move. I think both Pietrus and Lee will give us consistent solid results on both ends of the floor. Now we need to decide who is going to be our backup point guard, and solidify the bench.

    Just a thought on Dooling and the backup point guard situation: While I like everybody else want to see Dooling back in Orlando, I understand why they would go in another direction. Of course avoiding luxury tax is the number one reason, but here is another. The Magic want to have a backup point guard who can run the team. What happens when Nelson gets injured? Who is going to step in, start, and run the team? Not Dooling… That’s why last season, every time Nelson went down, SVG jumped to our 3rd string point guard Arroyo to start, because he can actually run an offense, unlike Dooling. That is why I expect to see them bring in a veteran like Jason Williams. However, I think they’re stalling on that right now to see if the Pacers buyout Jamaal Tinsley.

  • At 6:17 AM, Blogger Matt said…

    It seems to me that we tend to exaggerate the value of the new people coming in. Pietrus is not a high flying player to be compared to Bruce Bowen and likes. He is not even Maggette who demanded and received a 10 mil salary. Pietrus is receiving just about a bit over half of that amount, and that should tell us something about his value. Folks, to praise Otis Smith to sign him up while we have a glut of players at SG and no back-up in PG is way out of line.

    Not to overvlue Jameer neither. He was dominated in 2 out of 4 games with TOR by Ford and Calderon, and those are the games that we lost. Billups did the same before he got injured (and that was early on, if I am not mistakec), and Stuckey held his grounds against him. DET's backcourt basically dominated ours, and it could not be all Richard Hamilton. Not too bright for an 8 mil player no matter how you cut it.

    Once again, and for the last time, we cannot task our two top players at PF and C without giving them proper assistance, and that is where help is mostly needed, in my view. Say what you want but I predict that we are not going to make it to the second round of the play-offs next year if we don't consolidate our frontline.

  • At 6:44 PM, Blogger OVERWADED said…

    Mickael Pietrus:

    "Folks, to praise Otis Smith to sign him up while we have a glut of players at SG and no back-up in PG is way out of line."


    Because in my opinion, we already had quality players in 4 out of 5 starting positions. It's painfully obvious that none of our shooting guards are starting caliber. Lee could become one, but who knows with a rookie.

    Years ago, people thought we overpaid for Turkoglu, who was never considered a "starter", and look how that turned out. Not to say that Pietrus will be as good as Turk, but he does have all the tools we need for him to come in a fill a void that this team has had and struggled with regularly.

    FYI, there were over 10 teams, all playoff teams, some contenders that were interested in signing Pietrus. So it's not like we signed some guy nobody wanted.

    Maggette was on all those same teams lists, and more. But does Orlando need anymore scorers, not interested in played defense? We can score with the best of them. We need someone who is going to defend, and that’s what we got. The fact that he can shoot the 3-ball and finish on the offensive end is a welcomed bonus.

    Golden State dropped 10 million per on Maggette. That doesn’t mean much to me. All it said to me is that they just had to sign someone, considering they lost Baron Davis for nothing, and got rejected by Arenas and Brand. Congratulations Golden State, you just dropped out of the playoff race all together!

    Here are my last thoughts on Pietrus, also known as "Air France". While I get a laugh out of the name, I’m sure there is some reason he’s been called that. Even still, I never called him a "high flyer". The closest thing I said to that was calling him a "great athlete" with "outstanding leaping skills", which is true. I never said he was going to come in here and start posterizing people on a nightly basis. This should be why the mention of Bowen would make sense. The Magic brought him in to be a defensive stopper, and to knock down open shots (ala Bowen). And after watching Pietrus over the years, there is no reason for me to believe he can’t do just that.

  • At 6:49 PM, Blogger Mike from Illinois said…

    Matt, the Magic only lost one game to Toronto in the playoffs, not two. Nelson only had one bad game in that series, when he scored just 6 points in Game 3; that's the game the Magic lost. In the other four games, Nelson scored 24, 18, 19, and 19 points.

    Against the Pistons, the only bad game Nelson had was Game 1, when he scored just 7 points. In the other 4 games, he scored 22, 18, 15, and 14 pts.

    He had 24 assists in the Toronto series, and 23 assists in the Detroit series.

    With good stats like that, to still say that Jameer was dominated by the opposition is an exaggeration in my view.

    I agree that Nelson has to show consistency throughout the season; if he can do that, the Magic won't need to worry about their starting PG.

    As far as the backup PF and C positions go, this coming season we will have Battie and Gortat from the get-go; I think that will represent a significant improvement from last season; also Brian Cook will be healthy and we saw what a spark he could be off the bench in several games last season.

    The East will be significantly better this season than last season, with Detroit and Boston probably being the favorites again, and two playoff teams from last season being much improved this season in the Raptors and 76ers, and improved competition from the other SE division teams.

    It's going to be tough for the Magic to finish as high as third in the East, but the way the team is constructed now (as long as they can sign a serviceable backup PG), I have faith and optimism they can do it.

  • At 7:03 PM, Blogger OVERWADED said…

    Jameer Nelson:

    "Jameer was dominated in 2 out of the 4 games with TOR by Ford and Calderon, and those are the games that we lost".

    Are we talking about the regular season, or the playoffs; because Orlando won the series 4-1? That’s what I was referring to, because that is what matters the most.

    You are right in one regards, Jameer was outplayed in that single loss, but that was the only game in the series he played bad, mainly due to the fact that he was in foul trouble. However, every other game he showed up, more than held his own, and they were all W’s. I’ll take a 4-1 ratio on any player any day. If you’re going to criticize Jameer’s performance in the playoffs, especially the 1st round, that pretty much says to me that you’re going to think of him how you want, no matter how he plays. Here are his exact stats for the 1st round.

    17.2 PPG
    4.8 APG
    3.0 RPG
    .519 FG%
    .500 3p%
    .826 FT%
    2.60 TO

    While I think the assist to turnover ratio could use a little work, there isn’t much more I could ask for. And if you compare his stats to Ford’s or Calderon’s, Nelson as a whole is better than either of them. Now if you combine two against one, then maybe they "dominated" Jameer.

    The series against Detroit is harder to judge. Billups only played 2 games. He went out in the beginning of game 3, which turned into a blowout. By the way, that was Stuckey's best game of the series, a loss. In games 4 and 5 that went down to the final seconds Stuckey averaged 10.5 PPG, 4.5 APG, and 2.0 RPG. Nelson averaged 14.5 PPG, 5.0 AGP, and 3.5 RPG. You make the call...

    Again, look in the backcourt and to see where we were dominated. Hint: it was not at the point guard position.

  • At 7:04 PM, Blogger Mike from Illinois said…

    To emphasize what OVERWADED said about Pietrus... in Golden State, he wasn't put in a position to be utilized to the best of his ability; now, with the Magic, he will be playing his natural position and will be the unquestioned starter who should thrive in SVG's offense since he can shoot the long ball and play defense.

    I wouldn't be surprised to see Pietrus average around 15-16 points a game this coming season; not to criticize Mo Evans, who I thought did a heck of a job last season after being put in the starting lineup, but we should be getting at least 5 ppg more from the starting SG this season than last.

    Courtney Lee also proved he has lots of talent with his summer league play last week at SG.

  • At 7:13 PM, Blogger Mike from Illinois said…

    Thanks for going into Jameer's playoff stats more deeper than I did, OVERWADED. We're both trying to prove the same point, with all the evidence and stats we've presented in Jameer's favor.

  • At 7:18 PM, Blogger OVERWADED said…

    Ha-ha. I might have repeated a few things Mike just said, but I think that's because we were typing at the same time.

    I agree that the East should be interesting this year as it will be improved. The team that I expect to be most improved is the 76ers. However, I still think we can match up with them, as Dalembert has no offensive game. Also, as Mike mentioned, with Battie, Gortat, and Cook all being options off the bench, it's not like we don't have a few big bodies to put out on the floor. I’m pretty sure Foyle is coming back now too.

    Toronto is another team that got bigger. On paper, I worry about them, but that's it for now. Jermaine O'Neal hasn't been the player he once was for many seasons, so I'll believe it when I see it.

    And as I said going into last season, our frontcourt presents more mismatches in our favor than vice versa. We had and have many advantages in the frontcourt; the same can't be same for the backcourt, especially the shooting guard position.

    So I'm going to stick with my opinion. Nice moves so far this off-season. Find that backup point guard, and solidify the bench. Another 50 win season in the books.

  • At 7:38 PM, Blogger OVERWADED said…

    YouTube-ing my boredom away...

    I just searched Mickael Pietrus. He's got some nice highlight reels on there. While I know anybody can have one of those thrown together, it does show off some of his talents on both ends of the floor.

    Funny too, he does have the ability to fly. He has done some nasty dunks on people in the past.

    I agree with you Mike. Under SVG and with our surrounding players, I expect Pietrus to excel here in Orlando and have the best season of his young career.

    Going into last season I said we'd have a 50 win season and I was laughed at by some. So far I've been keeping my mouth shut, as we're only in July. But I’m thinking my predictive mark is going to change and go up +5.

  • At 8:52 PM, Blogger Big Figure said…

    Couldnt agree with you guys anymore,jameer showed his worth in the playoffs. And speaking of pietrus,he has a dunk on youtube where he dunks on three raptors. He goes right,then cross-overs left and dunks with two hands on the whole defense,SICK!!!! Every video i watch i like him even more,you cant say enough about a player when alot of his video's are defensive plays(tons of ridiculous blocks),i also think he'll have his best season as a pro here under svg.

  • At 2:12 AM, Blogger Matt said…

    Sorry guys for the mistake on Magic-Raptors play-off series. It shows that 1) I was looking from the outside in; and 2) my brain is fried from too much work to do.

    1 - I agree with the logic offered on the necessity to strengthen the back-court. However, I tend to believe that for the long haul we have to look at the BACKCOURT as one unit, and that unit has been the subject of abuse by competition. I hope that Pietrus would be able to help, but I don't overestimate his value. The market value is a good gauge of what a player can bring to the table, and let's remember that Pietrus is a 5.2 mil player. Having that said, I still want to reiterate that addressing the PG back-up issue, in my view, was more vital than upgrading the SG position.

    2 - Once again, and none of you addressed this issue clearly, I would like to reiterate that we cannot risk starting Rashard at PF for: 1) it may cause long-term negative effects on him banging with bigger and stronger players; and 2) we cannot get away with it when faced with higher level competition. The necessity of finding a legit starting quality PF, therefore, should be properly magnified. A stronger PHI and TOR combined with the full force WAS and ATL may make it more difficult to even make to the second round of play-offs. If we are unlucky and a long enough injury is sustained by either Dwight, Rashard or Hedo, we may not even make it to the play-offs.

  • At 5:22 AM, Blogger OVERWADED said…

    Thanks for that Matt. I didn’t mean to crash down hard on you, but I just wanted to make it a point that Jameer did his job, and did it well. I have never been a big cheerleader of Jameer, but he more than held his own in the playoffs. I was very happy with his performance.

    And as for you mentioning the power forward spot; I personally think you totally overestimating that position. As I’ve said for over a year, the Magic present more mismatches there than anything. I really do not believe we need that “typical power forward”, ala Horace Grant. Both Lewis and Turk held their own and put up better numbers that the Detroit forwards. Two blowouts, three close games; the Magic are not far away.

  • At 12:06 PM, Blogger Big Figure said…

    And to add,matt you can expect to see another season of rashard starting at the PF for us. I 100% agree with you when it comes to the wear-and-tear issue though,i truely beleive the difference this year will be a much better bench from top-to-bottom to give svg the ability to get the best five on the court for any specific opponent. Last year without battie and until we got cook rashard didnt have any quality help behind him so he basically had to always man the PF spot,but this year with battie back you can expect him to come off the bench and provide excellent front court help so that rashard cam move over and play the three a little more than he did last year. I think hedo's role is going to go down some,and the toughness of our team will be brought to the for-front with line-ups like nelson,pietrus,rashard,battie and howard. That line-up late in games is gonna be special.

  • At 3:34 PM, Blogger Mike from Illinois said…

    I agree with OVERWADED and Big Figure that the Magic will be in better shape than last season at the PF spot due to the flexibility we now have there with Battie and Cook and also Gortat available to backup Howard.

    Like the rest of you guys, I'm concerned about possible wear-and-tear on Lewis at the PF spot, but I don't think he'll be playing there as much as he did last season because of the more options we now have available.

    My main concern now is who will be the backup PG... I hope that gets resolved soon.


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