Orlando Magic Blog

Group Blog talking about the NBA 2009 Eastern Conference Champions. Due to the amazing success of the 2009 playoff run comments are now frequently deleted to kill offensive comments, incoherence, or asininity. Comments can no longer be anonymous and require either a Blogger or OpenID account.

Monday, December 24, 2007

BOS continues on roll with win over Magic

The Magic (18-11, 13-5 road) were never really in this one, falling behind by 20 pts in the third qtr to BOS (22-3) and could get no closer than 9 pts before losing 103-91 to the Celtics.

The "Big Three" of BOS, Paul Pierce (24 pts), Kevin Garnett (21 pts), and Ray Allen (22 pts) combined for 67 pts. Rajon Rondo helped out by matching a career-high with 23 pts.

Four players scored in double figures for the Magic, led by DHoward with 23 pts (9 of 15 FGs, 5 of 16 FTs), 14 rebs; HTurkoglu 19 pts (5 of 11 FGs); RLewis 15 pts (4 of 12 FGs); and MEvans off the bench with 10 pts (4 of 5 FGs).

The statistical breakdown:

FGs... BOS 38 of 73 (52.1%) ORL 30 of 68 (44.1%) BOS 84 ORL 68
3 PT FGs... ORL 8 of 18 (44.4%) BOS 8 of 19 (42.1%)
FTs... ORL 23 of 36 (63.9%) BOS 19 of 24 (79.2%)
REBS... BOS 38 ORL 34
AST/TO... BOS 24/14 ORL 20/14

The Magic, after starting 16-4, are now 2-7 in their last 9 games. Magic will get back into action after Christmas hosting the Knicks.


  • At 1:15 AM, Blogger Mike from Illinois said…

    The stats of the two starting PGs:

    JNelson... 21 min... 1 of 3 FGs... 4 asts, 3 TOs... 3 rebs... 1 steal... 4 pts

    Rajon Rondo... 38 min... 8 of 10 FGs... 6 asts, 2 TOs... 4 rebs... 4 steals... 23 pts

    Consistent, steady PG play to help out the "Big Three" is one reason why the Celtics are doing so great as a team. The last 9 games, Nelson just has not been getting the job done for the Magic.

    The upcoming stretch of games is critical for the Magic if they hope to get back on track to playing so well like they did the first 20 games. The next eight games are all against teams that are below .500 (4 home, 4 away).

    Not a very good way to go into the Christmas break. Anyway, Best Wishes and Happy Holidays to all you guys!

  • At 5:54 AM, Blogger OVERWADED said…

    They keep saying "Nelson is banged up". Well you know what, if he is hurting, maybe he should just take a break to get healthy; because as of late, he's been no use to this team in anyway on either end of the court.

    Arroyo, who hasn't been playing at all, stepped in and looked better than Nelson instantly. He ran the team tonight better than anyone tonight. But Nelson did the worst of the three. Dooling was obviously the middle man of the two. He had a decent game, but he just doesn’t run the offense well enough for my taste.

    Honestly, I really hope that Nelson is playing "hurt", because he's been useless; at least that'd be a good excuse.

    Last thoughts:

    It’s nice to see James Augustine actually playing with some energy. He really didn’t do much to show up in the box score, but I was just happy to see him playing hard.

    I know Rashard’s neck is hurt, but he needs to get that fixed up. We need more out of him. I did notice him trying to play physical tonight, and that was nice. But he’s got to get out of his shooting funk and find a way to get to the free throw line more.

    Our starting backcourt got crushed tonight. Bogans and Nelson COMBINED for more turnovers than points; depressing.

    Cook is obviously in the doghouse, probably because he came in out of shape.

    Where is J.J. Redick?

    Oh well, time to relax. I hope everyone enjoys their break!

  • At 8:37 AM, Blogger Matt said…

    Keyon played two minutes more than Jameer, and that is a move in the right direction. The problem is that Carlos played 17 minutes majority of which should have gone to Keyon, in my view. We would not see the best of Keyon until he gets the type of minutes to get him warmed up.

    Please read my comment on the prior post, if you have not read it yet. HAPPY HOLIDAYS YOU ALL.

  • At 9:48 AM, Anonymous MagicPaul said…

    All around great team defense for boston, they just seemed to have a sense of smell for the ball on the defensive end. If friday night and last nights games dont scare you, then you are wrong! The Magic are starting to look like the same magic that were led by mr. brian hill last year, and gents we have to wake up and smell the coffee.............The magic are hurting and honestly i think its gonna be difficult to stop the bleeding!!!! Im not counting them out whatsoever but at the same time i feel as if we have been through this before(Last Year).A lost to a celtics team that i splaying to a sellout crowd isnt a bad lost, but losing the way we did is a problem. You listen to all the Ric Bucher's and Stehen A Smiths of the world today and they want to crown the magic as one of the best in the east, but they are always so hesitant and gents last night showed you exactly why there is so much hesitation!!! Our players just do not want to win!!! yes i said it........ yes we are struggling at the pg position, yes our bench isnt deep enough and yes turk should come off the bench but all that dont matter if the players dont give a crap whether they win or not!!! We have all including the players have gotten used to mediocre basketball here in orlando and it must really hurt SVG to be watching such a great team begin to fall apart like Mickelson did last year at the open. Well now that i got that out the way lets talk about last night, rondo completely outplayed nelson, numbers can yell for themselves. Dwight missed 11 free throws and mr. lewis once again scored only 15 points besides taking 12 shots which more than half of them was when he was open due2thedoubleteam inside on dwight. Other than that i thought MO evans played a good game once again showing his quickness and his above the rim game! And arroyo's 17 minutes were solid as he ran the offense properly and getting open shots and drilling them!!! Well you boys enjoy your Christmas and we will talk to you for the breakdown of the knicks game!

  • At 10:45 AM, Blogger Big Figure said…

    I have no words for this team because im tired of beating a dead horse. At this point my frustration is no longer with the team but with SVG,he doesnt seem to have any problems with jameer's play and that bothers me. Did rashard have a great game,no,but at least he was in the game mentally,we seem to have lost jameer completely. Rondo showed how a point guard is supposed to play,if you score,your assists dont have to be that high,exactly the reason keyon should be playing for us as the starter. Overwaded i would have to disagree with your opinion on keyon and i didnt get a chance to state my opinion yesterday. He would give us a defensive presence which would in turn make it easier for us to score and get into fast breaks,defense gets you into transition and right now we cant stop anybody to get into any kind of offensive rhythm,there's no way somebody can tell me jameer is better equipped to handle that job,with starters minutes keyon wouldnt shoot as much as you state in your opinion because to start games we play through dwight,the only reason his shot attempts were up is because he's our first guy off the bench who's supposed to score,thats what bench guys do,thats their only job off the bench really. Plus at this point we could use keyon's ability to attack the basket,what is jameer doing for us? Just like matt said,given some time to get used to the position and role change as a starter i beleive keyon could give us way more than jameer at the point,carlos isnt even in the conversation as a starter with very slow foot speed,even though he looked good running the offense,on the other end he looked horrible trying to play defense. These next eight games are going to be a wake up call,go 6-2 or better and everythings back to normal. So what will happen first,Will jameer snap out of his funk? Will jameer be benched? Or will otis make trades to change our defensive culture and help his coach? Stay tuned....

  • At 1:08 PM, Blogger Big Figure said…

    Its funny,i was wondering if SVG would go back to jameer to close out the game after he had done that every other game up till this point,and to my surprise he didnt letting carlos finish out the game. Is that a sign? Or an in-game benching that has no effect on the next game? I know one thing,letting carlos finish means you werent happy with your point guard play on a night when you didnt question your teams effort,which in turn means one position is hurting you badly. We need stops more than anything and watching jameer watch guys go by him is getting old,after a timeout early in the first quarter matty guoukas says "SVG really wants the team to bunker down and not give up any lay-ups". Next play rondo goes right by jameer for a lay-up,unbeleiveable,and this is the guy that SVG is keeping on the floor. Jameer's foot work was super sloppy and because he was trying to help on the perimeter gambling for steals because he lacks the height to be able to get a hand up and contest shots,he wasnt able to get back and get in front of his man and stop the penetration. If i had to bench a guy because he just wasnt helping me,then he wouldnt just regain his starting position without earning it. The more i watch jameer the more i question whether if its just a system thing. Jameer isnt really built like an up-tempo point guard and he doesnt really run in transition,he seems more like a walk the ball up point guard.

  • At 3:30 PM, Blogger OVERWADED said…

    I hate to be the bearer of bad news for you Dooling fans (doesn’t mean I don’t like him), but if there is a change at point guard, I can’t see the new starter being Dooling. Can anyone honestly think a starting backcourt of Keyon Dooling and Keith Bogans would work?

    I get it, they both play decent defense, and defense can lead to transition baskets. But who is going to lead those breaks and make the play? Bogans has no handles. Lewis isn't much better. Dwight needs the ball passed to him. Dooling isn't a bad ball hander, but he's definitely not a great one; and he’s definitely not a great passer. Turk would be the playmaker on the floor. I'm sorry; I just can't see a backcourt of Dooling and Bogans taking us anywhere.

    How do you guys think Van Gundy feels about the position? He seems to have made it clear who he views as his point guard of choice between Arroyo and Dooling. The only reason Dooling started running point was because of Arroyo being out, first because of his daughter, then because of injury.

    The whole "slow foot speed" thing is kind of amusing to me. I just don't see it. But for someone with such slow foot speed, he sure finds his way around defenders on the offensive end…must be the “handles”.

    For those of you who really want to see an up-tempo offense, Arroyo is the guy you should want to see out there. Arroyo pushes the ball more than any player on our roster. He also dishes the ball better than anyone we have, and he does that with little to no turnovers. He also has the ability to score just as well as Dooling. You talk about what Dooling could do with more minutes, well I'm wondering what Arroyo could do with more minutes.

    I know Dooling is a decent defender, but why are the only stats that stand out in his box score every night relating to him shooting? He doesn’t even average close to “1” steal a game (0.3). I know he’s usually the first guy off the bench, but that doesn’t mean we need him to come in firing. Some energy off the bench is a must, along with some defense. But his offense just isn’t good enough to have him jacking shots up as much as he does, mainly because that means nobody else is getting involved at the offensive end.

    Here’s what I think. We have plenty of guys that can score if we have a player out there finding them. One, two, or all three of Dwight, Rashard, or Hedo is always on the court. Bogans, Evans, and Redick can all hit the jumper if a guard penetrates, draws defenders, and finds them. We NEED a playmaker at the point guard position. The reason we were winning for the first 20 games of the season was because Jameer was driving and dishing. And when he wasn’t dishing, he was finishing, and limiting his turnovers. Since the west coast road trip, that has ended. Jameer has been crap. Dooling has been Dooling. And Arroyo has been out. No playmaker at the point guard, look what happens, EVERYONES numbers go down, and the losses start piling up.

    To conclude, the only guy that Van Gundy seems disappointed in out of the three is Nelson. More than once this season he’s let Arroyo or Dooling finish out a game. So it’s obvious that he sees a problem. It’ll be interesting to see what he chooses to do and how it all plays out.

  • At 5:10 PM, Blogger Mike from Illinois said…

    The thing that bothers me about JNelson is that he played so well in the preseason and the first 20 games of the regular season; he seemed to really adapt to this new style of offense. As OVERWADED said, Nelson was dishing the ball well, not turning the ball over, and running the offense well... what happened all of a sudden? I definitely think Nelson needs to come off the bench now until he starts playing like he's capable of playing.

    As for who should start in his place, I would not argue against either Arroyo or Dooling; but my preference would be Arroyo; yes, I know Dooling is a much better defender, but if you look at most games, the team that has the better AST/TO ratio wins that game 90% of the time, and I think that's something that Arroyo can give the Magic (a high number of asts and low TOs) more than Dooling can, and I agree with OVERWADED in that respect.

    To get off the subject of the Magic for a minute, I was really stunned when the Bulls fired Scott Skiles today. Even though the Bulls were the most disappointing team in the NBA, what more can a coach do when his main guys are playing so poorly and inconsistently? KHinrich, BGordon, and LDeng, who had played so well last year, have been so inconsistent this season, yet Skiles stuck with them, hoping they would get back to the level they played at last year; he's also tried different rotations off the bench to get things going.

    GM John Paxson deserves a good share of the blame, as he overpaid for Ben Wallace last year and that just hasn't worked out; also, he has failed to get a low-post scorer the Bulls desperately need.

    Like the saying goes... you can't fire the whole team, so you fire the coach.

  • At 5:25 PM, Blogger Big Figure said…

    The only thing i'll say is this,im not saying keyon is the best point guard in the league or even close,and im not saying his game is perfect either,but he'd be better defensively than jameer and right now thats all i care about is getting stops,becoming a tougher team. Actually having a 6ft3 point guard who will rebound and run. SVG said it best at the begining of the season,when the shots arent falling who's gonna defend,meaning offense isnt always that important because defense will ignite your offense. Keyon while playing back-up point for the heat out played steve and jameer a few times,i can even remember a game where keyon dunked on jameer in transition. I really think you underestimate keyon,and as long as he's not a starter there's no evidence to prove either of our sides,but the truth leans to my side because he doesnt have to be an all-star he just has to be better than jameer and i think he can/could be. A back-court of keyon and keith isnt so bad (keyon gets to the line,keith shoots the three,jameer's doing neither),right now we've got a back-court of keith and jameer which in my opinion is worse. keyon gets to the foul line and can defend,what does jameer do even when he's playing his best? He's not even an average defender or passer! When playing his best he scores,same goes for carlos,when their jumpers arent falling they become useless. And you have to be kidding me if you think carlos would be the best fit as the starter,his defense is horrible and your exactly right when you say it the handles that gets him by on the offensive end. Look carlos is a very crafty guy on the offensive end and in the open floor but not even close to a starting point guard,jerry sloan (great coach)traded him,and larry brown wouldnt even play him,im sure they saw the crafty handles everyday in practice,but his defense kept him off the court. I also want to be very clear that im not a keyon fan specifically,but a fan of the whole team,and if i see someone who has more attributes that can be brought to the table more than another guy,than i would go with that guy,the only basic knock there is on keyon is the theory that he may not pass enough but thats only speculation,the two things i keep mentioning are (1)getting to the basket and (2) defense,those are things i know he can do,i think he's been around long enough that if he was the starter and we were getting stops on a regular basis keyon would find people in transition with three point shooters on the wing.

  • At 5:32 PM, Blogger Big Figure said…

    I've said my peice,we'll see what happens...

  • At 8:17 PM, Blogger OVERWADED said…

    I hate burst another so called positive of Dooling's, but he DOES NOT rebound. He's averaged 1 RPG for his entire career.

    All 5 foot of Jameer has never averaged that low in his career and is currently averaging 4 RPG this season.

    Dooling is the worst rebounder of the 3 point guards.

    As for the defensive side of things, has anyone else seen these so called "defensive stops"? Dooling is active, and quick, but he doesn't get any steals or blocks. I know you’re going to say he takes players out of their comfort zone, but I just don’t see it. However, I know he's a better defender than Arroyo and Nelson, but I haven't seen him stop anybody this season. Bogans is the only player I can give that kind of credit to.

    As for the dumps you took on Nelson and Arroyo; okay then.

    Arroyo is a proven point guard at the NBA and International levels. He's known for being a true point guard and a playmaker. Or you just watch how smooth the offense runs while Arroyo is on the floor.

    Nelson on the other hand is more offensive. But, you asked what we get if we have Nelson playing at his best? Well, we get a starting quality point guard. At his best, he's gutsy, plays with heart, leads the team, makes big shots, find players open behind the 3-point line, and Dwight for alleys. All you had to do to realize that was watch the first 20 games of the season. Sure, he'll always have a size issue on the defensive end, but his positives make up for it when he’s playing well.

    But currently, Nelson SUCKS and we've never seen him look as bad as he does right now. Whether it's the fact that he's going through his first holiday season without his father, or the fact that his banged up is unknown. Hopefully he'll bounce back, if not, a change will have to be made.

    One last thought, Keyon does use his speed well to get to the basket. But he's a shot first player. He never looks to pass. Here is a guy who is playing with the most dominating player in basketball, surrounded by shooters, and how many alleys have you seen Dooling throw to Howard? For that matter, where are the assists? It should be easy. As bad as Nelson is playing, he’s still at 6 APG, and Arroyo in limited minutes is at 4 APG. Why Dooling can’t even get 2 APG is beyond me.

    I guess until Van Gundy changes up the lineup, we'll never know, and I'm just not sure if that is going to happen.

    I'm done debating it about it. It was a nice debate. Enjoy the break.

  • At 11:36 PM, Blogger Big Figure said…

    At least you admitted jameer sucks right now,anyway good debate.

  • At 12:46 AM, Blogger Matt said…

    The situation at PG is a judgement call, and could be debated either way. To me the main issue is the perimeter defense so that we could stop bleeding. We were able to out-shoot some of our opponents but now our small front-line has been worn out and banged up, and so is our back-court (Jameer and Keith are both supposedly not 100%). Opponents are running at us with impunity. Therefore, we have to tighten up our belts on the defensive end. It would be absurd to have the best ball-handlers and passers out there if we are not able to stop anybody.

    I am tending to believe that Jameer is not the long term answer. I was not in favor of extending his contract for the price that he got. He is not in the class of Heinrich and likes. We should have hung on to that money to find a more suitable PG in the free market or look for some trade in that position. In my view there was no risk involved in short term since Keyon and Carlos could have handled the position, collectively, as good as Jameer if not better. But now, thanks to foolishness of Otis Smith, we are stuck.

    Additionally, as I pointed out prior to the start of the season, our front-line is thin and has been pounded constantly by the opponents. The likes of Millsap are having a feast out there. I am curious as to why Marcin Gortat is not used at all. Between him and James Agustine, we should be able to enhance the size at PF.

    In short, if we are not able to come up with some innovative trades, it would be a tough season for the Magic.

  • At 2:03 PM, Blogger Big Figure said…

    Matt i completely agree. All im waiting on is keyon being named the starter,if it never happens dont expect our defense to get any better,seems like you and i arent the only one's either according to the basketblog over on the sentinel.

  • At 6:33 PM, Blogger Mike from Illinois said…

    Here's a statistical breakdown of our three pt guards, based on a whole game (48 min) avg:

    Nelson... 18.2 ppg... 6.3 rebs... 9.6 asts... 4.3 TOs... 2.26/1 AST/TO ratio... 1.6 steals

    Arroyo... 13.3 ppg... 4.5 rebs... 10.1 asts... 2.8 TOs... 3.65/1 AST/TO ratio... 1.3 steals

    Dooling... 20.8 ppg... 3.0 rebs... 4.6 asts... 2.3 TOs... 2/1 AST/TO ratio... 0.9 steals

    Dooling's ppg per 48 mins is very impressive, but even though we would agree he is the best defender of the three, the numbers just don't show it, as both Nelson and Arroyo average more rebs and steals per 48 mins. Dooling does bring intangibles defensively though, which can't be measured by stats.

    Arroyo's AST/TO ratio is by far the best of the three.

    The question obviously is... what would be better for the Magic as the starting PG... Dooling's pts and defense or Arroyo's playmaking with his sparkling AST/TO ratio?

    With Nelson slumping, I'm partial to Arroyo starting right now, but if Dooling was named the starter at PG, I would not complain, as a change is needed at the position with Nelson really struggling now.

  • At 12:08 AM, Blogger Matt said…

    Stats are just as good as the people who interpret them. As long as we agree that we need defense on the perimeter - more than offensive output -, how could we support the worst defender of the 3PGs for the starting job just because his AST/TO ratio is better than others?

    Keyon's stats, from the other hand, is skewed as outlined below:

    1 - He does not rebound much because he is always in a forward mode and/or he is not pushed by the offensive player all the way underneath the basket;
    2 - I don't know exactly why Keyon does not steal or block as much, but by watching him play I believe that he prefers to keep the offensive player in front of him, and by nature, does not risk much in attempting to steal or block leading to a foul.
    3 - As a starter he could be asked to play a different style, and although he is not going to turn into the best passer, overnight, but he could be a high energy explosive PG, the way he played in Miami, while we could tighten up the perimeter defense.

  • At 9:34 AM, Anonymous MagicPaul said…

    Wow!! its obvious guys that the best fit point for our offense is Keyon Dooling! he is by far our best bench player this season and he has earned his right to be a starter! Or have we forgotten what has been happening to nelson as of late, he did just get outplayed by a mediocre second year guy in rondo and lets not even think about what williams did to him on friday night, believe me i was there it was ugly!!!Its obvious that we are hurting at the point and keyon is the next best thing that we got which fits into the run and gundy offense!

    Well getting off the subject, i always like to give praise to where it is deserved and i have to write about this one, well tuesday night i took my two little brothers of ages 13 and 14 and we went to the ritz carlton where i had heard that the knicks were staying, as we walked up we seen the buses pull up with the knicks player and they begin to make their way into the hotel, well we tried to walk into the hotel lobby and were told that if we were not guests we could not come in the hotel, well the knicks equipment manager comes up to me and says "hey is it just you and brothers?" and i replied yes so he ended up getting us in, when we get in, all the players are checking in but isaiah thomas is waiting for all of them to finish and he comes up to us and says "I'll take the pictures of you guys as the players get done checking in". OK as we all know isaiah thomas is going throgh some pretty rough days, but he was still cool enough to be pretty much as friendly as he could possibly be and take pics of my brothers and myself with his players and then allowed me take a picture with him, im not the oldest guy on the block but at 22, i remember when isaiah and larry used to go at it and to me it was really a nice gesture which he did on such a rough time for him and his team.

  • At 11:31 AM, Blogger Big Figure said…

    Otis could make a splash and trade jameer similar to the way trevor was dealt. He sent trevor to his home town (which was a cool move by otis,something he didnt have to do)somewhere that it shouldnt be hard for trevor to get back going,and with the way he played last night starting for the lakers and dunking on folks,looks like he's happy. Otis can do the same with jameer by sending him home to philly for andre miller who's very jason kidd like but younger,plus he's a triple double waiting to happen.

  • At 1:13 PM, Blogger Mike from Illinois said…

    Great story, Paul.


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