Orlando Magic Blog

Group Blog talking about the NBA 2009 Eastern Conference Champions. Due to the amazing success of the 2009 playoff run comments are now frequently deleted to kill offensive comments, incoherence, or asininity. Comments can no longer be anonymous and require either a Blogger or OpenID account.

Tuesday, February 07, 2006

Wizards outhustle lethargic Magic

This one wasn't even close. If not for KDooling and DStevenson, and to a lesser extent DHoward, it would have been even worse. Tonight, Turkglu couldn't hit water if he had fallen out of a boat, but our illustrious BSHill had the forthought to continue playing him. I hope SFrancis hasen't fallen into another funk with all of these trade rumors running around. Honestly, who could blame him if he has, wasn't he assured by the team that they intended to keep him? SFrancis - 5 shots, 5 points, 4 turnovers, 4 fouls.

And can someone tell me why BSH continues to use only Garrity and 1 other player in his rotation? Sure Kasun, Diener and Morris saw time, but it was just meaningless mop up minutes. He says its for match-up reasons, but come-on.... You can't tell me that he thinks this is an effective rotation. It is obvious his method isn't working, but he continues to stick by it. Playing Garrity and watching him flounder around the floor looking lost an being ineffective. Set Garritys ass on the bench and leave it there! Take a bold step and play someone else besides Garrity. Who knows? It may work, obviously his current game plan isn't worth a crap. Come on BSHill... grow some balls! Your whole method of so-called coaching is getting really tiring.

posted by Ken @ 12:23 AM  

26 Comments:

  • At 9:51 AM, Blogger Matt said…

    We needed to win this game, and it went as I feared to be the worst case; falling behind early and trying to compromise the defense in the hope of more offensive production. Without Francis going this team had no chance. Why is it so difficult to push trade rumors out of his mind? All it takes is a simple confirmation from BS Hill or wise Ottis, unless there is something in the making that they cannot deny. Look, the coach cannot insert players in the game and expect them to play their best if they have not been put in a meaningful rotation in the practice. Hill has made up his mind to milk a short rotation to their best, and the obvious result is that the players are wearing down. Look at Deshawn who has been a warrior but he is obviously in pain and doesn't have much of a lift. Playing Diener more would give some relief to him. Unfortunately, Garrity's offense does not compensate for his defensive liabilities.

    Additionally, there are no words of Grant and Jameer's return. The media even does not ask the hard questions any more.

     

  • At 12:27 PM, Blogger Matt said…

    Pete, if there is any chance of the franchise remaining in town, we all need to air our views so that corrective measures would be brought about. One may choose not to get into details but, regardless, every voice is valuable, and would be counted as such.

     

  • At 2:45 PM, Blogger OVERWADED said…

    Once again last night Francis showed why he should and will be traded. He is not a leader. This team doesn't have a leader, yet. But that's beside the point. Francis has serious problems in his head. I know, I know, he's human and he just couldn't focus with the "trade rumors". What? OK, there isn't a single player in the league that hasn't had to deal with that at one point of their career. Some of them deal with it EVERY SINGLE YEAR. And regardless, even if that was bothering him, nothing should be able to bother a "star player" to putting up 5 points and grabbing 1 rebound. There is no excuse of that. Francis needs to be slapped, because he’s being a little b*tch. It's the point in the season where this team needs to be turned over to the future. For a better future for the team and for Howard, Dwight needs to be the 1st option from this point on. It might not be pretty at first, but it won’t hurt. If anything it will just prepare him for the future. And I really question if he can be "that guy" with Francis still on this team. I've always been a fan of Francis, but the sad fact of the matter is, I don't see how he is going to fit on this team, and how he is doing any good for this organization now or in the future. If he could just shut up and do his job, maybe, but that has never been the case and he continues to prove it. So like before, I'm still a firm believer that Francis will be traded. Something might have already happened if Nelson wouldn't have got injured. But with Nelson out and the recent solid play of Francis, the process slowed down a little. It sucks for Francis, but I'm sorry. I'm sorry he has daddy issues, or abandonment issues, but I feel sorry for the Magic also. In the end, only one thing matters to anyone, and that's what he is doing or not doing on the basketball court.

     

  • At 4:39 PM, Blogger Matt said…

    Wow Introvert316. It's easy to unload on Francis but let's be fair that there is a lot more wrong with the Magic that Francis's situation pales in comparison. Allow me to outline some points:

    1 - Francis was the main reason for the winning streak, and also the main reason that the Magic has been close in some of the recent losses. In last night's game he was in foul trouble throughout but I didn't notice him slacking off. As a matter of fact on the drive that he scored on Daniels and called for offensive foul, he should have been given 2+1. By the way, we could have had a better chance of staying in that game, had we tightened up the defensive screws when we got it to being down by 4.
    2 - He was reportedly assured that he would not be traded. Why was that a problem to re-affirm that point to put his mind at ease?
    3 - Agreed that all players live under the possibility of being traded, but there is a big difference between such possibility in the background and looming as an imminent threat.
    4 - Magic cannot afford to give up the season risking to lose the fan base. The team's success is also linked to the franchise's possibility of remaining in town. That issue by itself, in my view, is more important than rapid development of Dwight or any player for that matter.
    5 - Some of you might not agree with me, but the only star level player we have is Dwight and that is not sufficient to take us anywhere. Teams need two superstars to succeed. If one was enough MIN or PHI would have been somewhere, by now.
    6 - For a team that has glaring deficiencies all over, we cannot afford to discard a player with Francis's qualities unless we get something of close to equal value in return.

     

  • At 12:57 AM, Blogger OVERWADED said…

    I know you love Francis Matt, but it just isn't going to happen for him. I don't know if it'll work out in the end for Francis anywhere. He is a problem, and it's obvious.

    1. I disagree, the Magic were winning because of team defense and team offense. As a whole the team's confidence grew. Yes, Francis played a nice role, but Hedo and Pat "stood out" more during that period. Oh, and you can try and justify 5 and 1, but that just isn't going to fly. Diener could have put that up, hell, I could have put that up. Steve Francis is an "all-star". So, OK, he has an off shooting night, even though he only shot 5 times?!?! Why can’t he stay aggressive and contribute in other areas? Francis tries to make points on the court, and he does it like a child. Last nights game was the kind of game that got him suspended in the first place. And what, not even 10 games later he does the same thing because his name comes up in rumors? And even if the Magic plan to have Francis around in the future, they still have to do their job and listen to offers.

    2. There is no proof to know what really went on behind the Magic’s closed doors.

    3. Regardless, he still has a job to do. If you’re at work, and your job is on the line. There's a chance you might get fired, or demoted, are you going to just shutdown, or are you going to put all that into your job and prove your selfworth.

    4. If you haven't noticed, the Magic have lost their fan base. The Magic are a joke to most sports fans in Orlando. Nobody really cares to know what is going on with them. Of course that is why your point is valid, and the Magic need to start winning games, but why is that going to start if Francis stays?

    5. Steve Francis a "star player". I really like Francis, as I've said before. He's played the kind of ball that shows he can be a "star" in this league. He's also never won anywhere. Still, he could be that guy, if he could just keep his head straight, and that’s a big if. But over his whole career he's had problems. How many times in the 2 years have we heard him say "I’ve changed"? At what point do you realize, after you look at his whole career, that he might not change?

    6. AGREED. I WOULD NOT AND DO NOT WANT TO LET FRANCIS GO WITHOUT GETTING SOMETHING CLOSE TO EQUAL IN RETURN. You might not get one player of equal talent, but there are many combinations that can make a deal like that work on for the positive.

    I’m sorry, like everyone else, I get really pissed off and frustrated when the Magic lose. I'm not trying to argue with you Matt, More than anything I'm just venting. It drives me nuts to see the Magic go up and down like this. I'm to much of a fanatic, and I know that. It just pisses me off when I see guys that HAVE IT MADE, and it’s like, what, do we have to hold your hand? The NBA is not a babysitters league, or maybe I’m wrong. T-Mac was the same way, and players that act like that, and put it out in the public, that’s just not acceptable. Even if they want or should be pampered, they need to keep that crap to themselves, because they are making millions for playing the game they love.

    I think the NBA really started to realize what was going on. That is why the big stink on dress code came up last year. It's a professional multi-billion dollar business, it's about time the players acted the part.

     

  • At 4:31 AM, Blogger Mike from Illinois said…

    I am a Steve francis backer, but you guys have brought up some good points pro and con about trading him. I can certainly understand some of the frustrations that Pete and Introvert have written about, but Matt is right... we still need to show we care about the franchise by airing our views, positive or negative, and not giving up hope. I know we Magic fans have endured a really tough last 3 years, but we have some outstanding young talent and other talented players also, and I really believe the Magic have a bright future, if all of us can just be a little patient. I know that's a lot to ask, but that's what being a true fan is all about... being there in the bad times as well as the good times.

     

  • At 9:02 AM, Blogger Big Figure said…

    Guys i'm gonna keep this short and sweet,you all make good points,but the reality is this franchise has hired non basketball people to run the franchise from the begining,and the results show poor winning %'s and low attendance,we wouldnt be having any of these conversation's if we had a true basketball gm and a head coach with a proven resume,everything that happens on the court is a direct reflection of poor ownership,bad drafts,trading people to soon & trading the wrong poeple,the sad part is i dont see any indication that things are gonna get any better any time soon!

     

  • At 9:50 AM, Blogger Big Figure said…

    Oh,and let me also say,when steve is playing well,no one including myself complain's about steve's game,but when he plays horrible he should be traded,now i'm not pointing fingers at anyone on this blog,just merely stating that steve wont ever be moved or retained for that matter b/c of an off night,whether the off night was b/c of trade rumors,something bodily thats bothering him or whatever,its just not gonna happen that way! Steve in my opinion is a shooting guard in a point guards body,which make's him a tweener,and if you know anything about the nba,you know that tweeners usually dont work out,and if you couple with it the fact that steve isnt really a structured enough point guard,you'll start to see the reason's why he would truely be traded,(1)After seven years in this league we all see that steve's game isnt gonna change,when he's agrressive he's playing like a two,when he's not he 's manning the point,b/c of the fact that deshawn has more of a defensive small forward type game,steve is manning both guard position every night by himself,hedo isnt comfortable out there with him b/c he takes all the shots,then when he plays more of a structured game and gets other people involved,he gets crucified by the media and fans b/c he wasnt aggressive enough.(2)The future is here,Jameer might not have great size but he averaged about 20pts per game before the injury,that much of an offensive output outweigh's any defensive shortcomings,and jameer is a true point guard by all standards! It was rumored that steve would be part of a three team trade that would eventually send us Quenton Richardson,well i dont know what you guys think,but i think we should jump all over it,jammer and keyon are as good as steve at the point,and then you'd add a two guard in Q that has a complete game,NY is bad so dont judge him in that situation,nobody would win there,but here running with jameer who is alot like the point who made Q a good player (NASH) would be great for Orlando and dwight,b/c Q can shoot the three and is way tougher than hedo! Jameer,Q & grant would be the best 1-2-3 we've had since penny-nick & dennis,now if we could get everybody healthy! The biggest positive with steve traded,would be that now keyon is your starter while jameer's out and travis would have to play those back-up minutes,with Q-deshawn & hedo all over 6ft 5,we'd have much more integrity in our line-up as they man your wing positions while grant's out!

     

  • At 11:05 AM, Blogger Matt said…

    I am honored when opposing views are aired, and aired with vigor, as I take it as my views were worth opposing. I was shaken a bit by Introvert316's views on Francis. I think points of difference on this blog are minimal, and in a broader sense, we are complementing and enriching each other. I love the Orlando Magic, but I love it because it's my home town team. Therefore, my big picture is framed around the idea of keeping the franchise in town. Any and all considerations would be placed within that framework or they would be discarded. I agonize when Magic loses but I don't put much of a weight on players, especially individual players, but rather how they have been prepared for and were utilized during the game. I think many of the NBA players are like spoiled kids, to some extent or another, some more obvious than others. When talented, we tend to forgive them in a broader picture, looking at the excitement that they bring to the game. In team sports, as Big Figure has pointed out corrctly, institutional establishments are more important than any other consideration. That is why I have always been forgiving on players.

    I didn't mean to vent but rather to clarify the basis of my views. Feel free to oppose me, and as I said, I would be honored by it.

     

  • At 11:58 AM, Blogger Big Figure said…

    Matt,there's nothing to oppose in your last comment,your exactly right about the big picture,and i have to admitt,i was a little shocked at intro's post also,but in this since i agree with him,steve needs a team that will use him properly,that might not ever be the magic,with this coach it seems like he's content with making steve switch position all night long rotating from the 1 & 2,but what thats doing is wasting his career bottleing up his talents b/c he should always be in attack mode with all his offensive game he should never play the point guard position,i mean when steve is dribbling through his legs right-left-right-left looking you right in your eyes your frozen and know your at the mercy of his skills bc he could go right to the hoop or left to the hoop,and usually when he see's you rock back left or right,he'll pull up right in your grill and draine that jumpshot right in your face from anywhere on the court,his game is dynamic & beautiful with a touch of recklessness which you need to be an effective playmaker,well that sounds like a two guard to me,and the coach who finally puts him there for good will be the one who wins consistently with steve,i would be all for not trading steve if he were permenantly moved to the two,and dont anybody think he's to undersized b/c allen Iverson was a two all the way up until this year and has made the finals,been MVP,been the scoring champ & is regarded as one of the tougest players in the league when he's the smallest to play his position,other undersized two guards are,vashon leonard,kirk hinrich,taylor from the wiz(forgot his first name)and there's plenty more,so i would be all for keeping steve but only in that fashion,rip hamilton has no gerth so he's undersized too,rip had a game when he didnt even make a shot from the field was like 0-11 or sumthin,but b/c he plays the two he was still able to get to the free-throw line and score ten or twelve points on a night he didnt have it going,the two guard position is one that can withstand turnovers(just from that position the whole team cant be throwing the ball away)and low point totals if you doing other things,b/c coaches know that,that's the one position every night that is gonna take alot of shots,so you can expect some off nights whether it be from turnovers or not being able to find the basket,but that's not acceptable from the point guard position,doesnt that sound like steve guys?

     

  • At 12:21 PM, Blogger OVERWADED said…

    Mike, just to clarify, I'm frustrated, but in no way am I giving up hope. We have a solid group of young players who are only going to get better with time. The idea of Howard and Nelson playing together for years to come is exciting enough to think about. We still are a few pieces away, but I know it'll happen in time as long as those young guys are kept together. Worse case scenario, I think we'll continue to show flashes this year and next. Next year I think we'll probably round out and be a .500 team or above. But I think the franchise will grow in leaps once G Hill's contract is off. Hopefully he'll still be here, but playing for the veteran's minimum. In no way could I ever not be a Magic fan. I've been a fan since year 1, and it's one of those love affairs that no matter how bad it gets, I'll still be there in the end. I just can't help myself. Ha-ha...

     

  • At 12:47 PM, Blogger Matt said…

    Big Figure, it seems to me that you are pointing out that Francis's talents are not utilized to the maximum in Orlando because of the scheme that the coach is playing him in. Am I correct? If affirmative, are we stuck with an average coach to the extent that we have to trade Francis to pave the way for a scheme that hasn't produced results, so far? And nobody could ever say with any degree of certainty that would ever produce results based on this coach's resume. Are the true fans to agonize, time and time again, because of the moronic policy of "Coach Hill is our coach"? I am disappointed at the Orlando media's coverage since they are taking pot shots at the players, but it seems that they are in the sack with the ownership, the front office and the coach.

     

  • At 1:36 PM, Blogger Big Figure said…

    OK matt let me break this down,the problem is we have no scheme,night to night the players figure out different ways to score everytime down the floor,you watch the games,do you ever see us run something and then milk it until it stops working,the other night deshawn took it upon himself to keep running that pick and roll to the middle and stroking that jumpshot time and time again,but that was b/c for the first time you get a chance to see what it looks like to have a guy in deshawn who should be playing the two,play it properly while steve was in foul trouble,you notice during that tretch keyon just stayed out of deshawn's way and kept feeding him the ball from the top of the key perfectly in his shooting rythem coming of the curl,keyon played the point guard position just like it's supposed to be played,what you have to do as a GM is put players with size at their position and force coach hill to have to play certain guys only at certain positions's for example:jameer,keyon & trav are only gonna play point and deshawn grant,hedo,etc are only gonna play the wing,but steve is the one guy who plays both and thats whats killing us,sometimes he's a one sometime's he's a two,he's a tweener,turn this team over to the three true point guards we have,jameer,keyon & trav in that order,if their not gonna make steve a two then he must be traded,the drafting of trav and the signing of keyon made steve expandable,now we have plenty of insurance for jameer!

     

  • At 2:10 PM, Blogger Big Figure said…

    I think our players are talented enough to win games without much offensive coaching x's and o's wise from coach hill if management brings in the right guys,b/c he was brought here to make us a better defensive team,which i still beleive we are and he has,but thats where management is failing,b/c they arent getting guys that fit his style of coaching,he feels like players should just pretty much find their own way on the offensive end (these are nba players,i mean how hard is it to run the pick-and-roll),since if you play defense you'll get easy buckets,therefore offense isnt that important,but defense wins championships,true i think coach hill has offensive shortcomings,but management is hurting us worse with bad trades,most recent Blunder isssss: Keith Bogans is the winner,boy could he help us now,anybody know where brandon hunter is? b/c thats what we got in exchange,i hate our management just as much as i hate our ownership!

     

  • At 2:11 PM, Blogger Matt said…

    Big Figure, with all due respect you didn't answer my question. Who is the problem? Steve or the coach?

     

  • At 2:32 PM, Blogger Big Figure said…

    Matt it's a real tough angle,when it comes to coach hill and steve,in my opinion if you want me to just say it right out"yes,coach hill doesnt know how to use steve",but here's the problem,we signed him to a 3 year contract (i think),we cant just get into the coach-swapping game,so while he's here,as a gm why not put players around him that can do the job perfectly,better than the one's he currently using,like acquireing a true two guard,and starting one of your true point guards,and model yourself like some of the better defensive ball clubs in this league,tony parker & manu - chauncey & rip,those guys play their respected positions and never interchange,and play the bulk of the minutes at their position,with high basketball IQ's,we need a back court that can score with the best of them,that has chemistry and like each other,and most of all that complement each other,like steve and cuttino did,but boy thats another we let go,and everybody knows where doug christie is,somewhere under mrs.christie! I think we have alot of problem's,but if management decision's werent so bad over the years,we could get by with average offensive coaching,i still think he's a good defensive coach,ten times bettre than J.Davis,and i could give you a laundry list why!

     

  • At 2:47 PM, Blogger Big Figure said…

    I guess the question is: Which carries more weight,flaws in players games,flaws in coaching strategies,or flaws from management in the form of bad draft picks,scouting,and trades? The magic have glaring problem's in all three phases,and in my opinion only one is killing us,it doesnt mean the other two dont have their own flaws,but you can live with those,the third one is pretty much killing deshawn & Battie(who might i add are tough as nails and real men),they should have had some real help along time ago,and not in the form of a washed up grant hill!

     

  • At 3:27 PM, Blogger Matt said…

    Big Figure, you have expanded on your views more than I could ask for. Regardless of Steve's situation, I sincerely believe that if Magic is in the build-up process, they need:

    1 - Two star players as the anchor. As much as I love and admire Jameer, he doesn't fit into the prototype mold of a star caliber PG in the NBA.

    2 - A coach with proven track record to work with and develop the young players. Brian Hill is not the kind of coach that can lead this team to the promised land.

    It pains me even now after so many years that the front office stood behind Brian Hill right when Shaq's agent was criticizing Hill (I never believed it was on his own initiative). There were some sentiments expressed implicitly that Shaq believed this coach could not take the team over the hump. Of course Shaq wanted to win a championship, like any player may dream so, and for that purpose he was closer to that dream in Orlando than anywhere else with the right coach at the helm. One may argue that we don't know the exact facts behind Shaq's departure. Simple logic may suggest that it was a combination of a few elements, amongst which the ownership's low balling of Shaq or his desire of reaching the glamour in LA, but the championship element could not be ruled out.

     

  • At 4:01 PM, Blogger Big Figure said…

    Matt i truely beleive we have point 1 in jameer & dwight,point 2 we dont have but we could win with better management decisions's,but let me say that steve nash isnt the prototype point guard either,he has no size,isnt a good defender,and teams try to post him up every night with good success,but what does he do,just run the ball back down your throat and when you slack off he'll hit three's and demoralize your team with quich scoring outbursts,and oh yeah he'll also get you double figure assists,and you can add a MVP to that also,i think your getting a little too hung up on appearances,when the focus should be if the guy gets the job done,there's nothing anyone can say that would convince me that jameer cant be as good a nash in time,they said the same things about nash when he was a rookie playing behind a 6ft4 jason kidd,nash looked like a little kid,but now that he's matured he understand %'s,if he plays his game at a higher % than his opponent,then he wins,no matter the size difference,thats basketball IQ,and i've seen it in jameer,jameer's the type if a guy posts him up,when he takes the ball from out of bounds,he'll run pick and roll a draw a foul on one of your big-men,now everyone looks at it and thinks he's selfish,but in reality he's fighting %'s for his team,if the opposing big-man is on the bench a higher % of the time then you will have more success scoring at the basket,take looks out of it,if jammer is averaging 20pts a game and 7 assits might i add during the stretch before he got injured,how in the world can you have a problem with that,or think that he isnt worth giving a shot at the job,he was out scoring his counterpart on most nights during that stretch with some high twenty point games!

     

  • At 4:56 PM, Blogger Matt said…

    Big Figure, Thank you for the clarifications. I think I need to re-assess my views on Jameer. Just one quick note: Nash is listed at 6-3 and 195 pounds while Jameer is generously listed at 6-0 but a solid 190 pounds.

     

  • At 5:13 PM, Blogger Big Figure said…

    Nash is 6ft 1, and let me also say that most players in this league are listed incorrectly,but like i said before if jameer gets it done,then it dont matter anyway right?

     

  • At 6:02 PM, Blogger Matt said…

    I just looked up the players' stat and Nash is listed at 6-3. I guess they are all given a 2 inch extra since Jameer listed at 6-0 should be at 5-10.

     

  • At 6:22 PM, Blogger Big Figure said…

    Matt thats exactly right,programs give them an inch and shoes give them another inch,but your exactly right,i could go down the list of players that arent as tall as commentators say they are,i've met some in person and i'm sure you have too!

     

  • At 6:44 PM, Blogger OVERWADED said…

    That was a great debate! I enjoyed that. I am with big figure on Jameer. I believe he can and will be the future PG for years to come. Honestly, a lot of times when teams get caught up in trying to take advantage of a "mis-match", and throwing their point in the post, it backfires on them because it's not apart of their normal game plan. Few PG's in the NBA hit the post on a regular basis. Even Billups, who has a low post game, prefers to chuck 3's all night.

    The only other thing that caught my attention was Keith Bogans. I thought it was stupid for giving him away. Originally, Stevenson was the one sitting the bench, demanded a trade, because they both played the same position. At the time, sure, we had Mobley, Hill was back, but of course things changed, and we could use him now. But how could we know that then?

    Oh, and the Mobley for Christie thing will always drive me nuts. I always thought Christie was a scrub just in the since that I didn't like anything about him.

     

  • At 6:52 PM, Blogger Matt said…

    On Keith Bogans, if I am not mistaken, the choice was between him and Deshawn since they wanted to dump the salary of one of the two. At the time it was a hard choice to take Deshawn over Keith. Even now despite the way Deshawn has performed it remains a tough choice. Regardless, we couldn't have them both.

     

  • At 8:10 PM, Blogger Mike from Illinois said…

    I too, am a believer that JNelson would be an outstanding pt. guard for this team. In addition to being talented, the guy has heart, and that makes up for some deficiencies that otherwise would say he might not be a good pt. guard. Nelson also has a chip on his shoulder because he lasted so long in the draft before the Magic took him at No. 20. I know he wants to prove a lot of teams wrong who overlooked him.

    Like Big Figure said, look at Nelson's stats in all the games prior to when he got injured. You can't argue against such outstanding numbers. The improvement from his rookie year to this season is really something. Geez, I wish we could have him back healthy ASAP.

     

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